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Interview with Chefs John Stewart & Duskie Estes

June 22, 2010

Chefs John Stewart & Duskie Estes at the 'Chefs' Holidays at The Ahwahnee' event. January 2010. Yosemite, California

Chefs John Stewart and Duskie Estes are a husband and wife cooking team who own two restaurants in Sonoma County: Zazu Restaurant and Farm just outside Santa Rosa, California, and Bovolo Restaurant on the square in Healdsburg, California.  They are cooks who embrace a local, sustainable, ultra-fresh, from-the-garden cooking style wholeheartedly and without fail.  Not only do they have a kitchen garden at Zazu that supplies both restaurants with super fresh produce but they also raise pigs, sheep and chickens at their Sonoma County home.

John makes his own salumi having trained with Mario Battali, and at the University of Iowa Meat Lab.  Duskie prides herself in cooking high brow low food.  She likes to update classic American comfort foods using locally sourced ingredients.  She also competed on the ‘Food Network Challenge’ in 2007.  John’s style of cooking is authentic and rustic Italian.  He is responsible for their line of Black Pig Meats, bacon and salumi. Their philosophy includes no waste, and they use every part of the animal also known as ’snout-to-tail.’  They either raise the proteins they use and eat themselves, or know the person who does.  They are committed ‘to finding ingredients as close to their restaurants as possible, harvested at peak ripeness, and doing as little as possible to alter their natural perfection.’

Each time I head north from my home in Los Angeles to Sonoma County I eat at both of their restaurants.  The food is always exciting, with clean, simple, direct flavors, highly interesting while still being authentic, and the best food I’ve eaten in months. These innovative chefs have become my cooking heroes.  I recently had the opportunity to interview them at the ‘Chef’s’ Holidays at The Ahwahnee’ event in Yosemite.

Charles G. Thompson: As you both know I’m a huge fan of what you do.  First off, how did you become involved in the local food movement?

Duskie Estes: In Sonoma County the wineries are still family owned, and there’s still a diversity of agriculture.  We want it to stay that way because there’s so much soul in that direct connection to people over larger businesses.  When we saw what happened to Napa, and what could happen to Sonoma we became more and more dedicated to making sure we purchased conscientiously to help preserve the local small farmer.  Everything grows there, and all the proteins are available to us there, every awesome vegetable, the longer we’re there the more we get into it ourselves.

John Stewart: Very personal choices drive what we do, they’re not economic choices.  From a straight cost analysis it’s not always the smartest thing to support everything we do but it is definitely the right thing to do.  At the end of the day we want to be able to hold our heads high and know that what we did was right.  For me it all started when we were looking at our house and there were chickens behind it.  We had purchased other homes so I knew you could ask for things to be written into the deal like people’s living room furniture.  I asked for the chickens.  Our real estate person thought it was hilarious but I was like no, I want the chickens.

CGT: That’s a great story.  That brings to mind: there seems to be a huge upswing in urban farming.  Non-farmers, or city dwellers creating mini-farms at home.

JS: I think a lot of people start out that way having chickens kind of like cats.  If they have food, chickens do their own thing.  They’re kind of independent of you.  But you also have to be careful.  We had a vineyard in our backyard and everyone told us you have to put down synthetic fertilizers.  So we put down synthetic fertilizers, and then we saw our free range chickens run over and eat it, and we thought, wow, that can’t make sense so we stopped using the fertilizer.  It just goes from there.  Duskie did an event where this woman, Deborah, had Babydoll sheep so we got some sheep to care for the vineyard in a biodynamic way.  They can be in the vineyard and unlike goats they won’t go up on their hind legs and eat the fruit.  They wander through, they fertilize, and they eat.  You don’t have to put machinery through your vine rows to stop weeds, and such, your sheep do it.

Farfalline Pasta Carbonara, House Made Bacon, Farm Egg, Parmesan at Bovolo Restaurant, Healdsburg, California

CGT: Recently there’s been so much talk about the ‘politics of food.’  Could you both comment on that?

DE: I grew up in a political household.  My parents are very active politically but I’ve always felt powerless when it comes to politics.  To me the power I feel I have is purchasing power.  I make sure whether it’s a food related purchase, or something else I need not to shop at Walmart but to go to the small independent clothing store instead.  I make sure there’s a face where my money’s going and that it’s not lost out there to an unknown entity.

JS: I’ve read a lot of Wendell Berry and Michael Pollan, and in reading these guys you really see the negative consequences of the American imperative of bigger is always better.  The farms in the 60s and 70s passed the scale of where they really should be.  Now we’re seeing all the economic and environmental consequences from these farms that are so massive.  They’re not good for the people that work there, they’re not good for the animals that are raised there.  The end product is bland and boring.  It’s cheap and there’s a lot of it which Americans tend to love but it’s boring, tasteless food.  People need to start thinking more consciously about where their food comes from.  In Europe a lot of this was never lost because they didn’t have as much land to scale out.  Their farmers had to stay small and diversified.  We were listening to Michael Pollan interview Wendell Berry recently.  Wendell Berry for 50 years now has gone on and on about the loss of American agriculture, and the loss of small scale farmers.  Sort of the beginning of the end.  He may be a little alarmist and a little out there but a lot of it is rooted in truth today.

The sign for Bovolo Restaurant, Healdsburg, California

CGT: Eating ‘locally’ is probably easier for those of us living in California, wouldn’t you say?

JS: Yes, we’re lucky being in California.  Not everyone has access to what we do so we can’t look down on them.   But if a food revolution really does get going it’s going to happen in all those Midwestern states.  That’s where the land is.  It’s not going to happen in the Bay Area, or the West Coast, not even the northeast.  There will be smaller farms and more regional differences. Like how Gravenstein apples grow around us, but Macintosh, or Romes, or Empires grow in New York.  For a long time I worked with Berkshire hogs which are also known as black pigs.  They came from Iowa and it was great because they were organic.  But a lot of people have made the case that if your organic raspberry comes from Chile then how organic is it if it has been flown in from somewhere so far away? So I started working with farmers from Oregon with a different breed of pig trying to get as close to us as possible to lessen the carbon footprint.  We all need to start thinking about our purchasing. Whole Foods may be the best option for a lot of people in a lot of places but for us it’s not.  We drive by small produce markets that are locally owned so if we spend our money at them it stays in Sonoma County.  Spend it at Whole Foods and it goes back to Texas.

CGT: Before Sonoma County you were both in Seattle.  Seattle’s a great food town.  What brought you to California?

DE: We met in Seattle.  I grew up in San Francisco and my parents lived in both Healdsburg and Oakland.  When we started to have children we wanted them to know and be close to family so we moved down to Sonoma County.  We adore Seattle, it’s awesome, and there are so many great farmers up there.

JS: We worked for Tom Douglas [a Seattle-based restaurateur] up there, and that involved working with a lot of local farmers, and those experiences led to what we do now.  A lot of berries and mushrooms among other things came from people who grew or foraged them.  We probably knew a whole lot less about wine than we do now but we knew all the local farmers.

CGT: That must have been more of an urban lifestyle because you were living in the city?

JS: Yes, we lived in the city but we drove out to the farms.  It’s probably where I got interested in making food because we would leave the city, and there would be all these berry farms and fruit farms.  I started making jams and jellies, and canning.  A flat of strawberries costs $15 and they were delicious.

World Famous Pork Cheek Sandwich with Roasted Peppers, Salsa Verde at Bovolo Restaurant, Healdsburg, California

CGT: Was the Mario Battali connection from Seattle, or through his father [Mario's father, Armandino Batali, a salumist, owns 'Salumi Artisan Cured Meats,' a shop in downtown Seattle]?

JS: Through Seattle but Duskie and I were also doing work on the annual Food & Wine Classic in Aspen.  Duskie’s still involved and has done it now for 11 or 12 years.  I went for about 5 years and we got to know Mario through that, then we met him at a party in Seattle, and I talked to him about curing.  He’s a great guy, he’s giving with his knowledge, a great teacher, a nurturer of people.

CGT: Any frustrations with living the local lifestyle?

JS: There are times where we live – it’s not New York, it’s not San Francisco.  There’s a lack of a concentration of people.  We often joke that we have a lot more fans in Los Angeles and New York then locally.  People that readily understand what we’re doing more so than the people who grow, or raise our food.  They grow carrots, raise rabbits, and chickens.  They raise all their own products so they already get it.  They never left this farming lifestyle so who cares if it’s grass fed beef? There’s grass fed beef right out their windows.

CGT: Are you able to get away to San Francisco?

DE: 3 or 4 times a year.  Or sometimes we have an event to be at.  We probably only go out to dinner once a year.

JS: Where we live there isn’t much diversity with low end, ethnic foods like authentic barbecue for example.  There’s great Mexican but not much else.

DE: Or like that Korean barbecue dude, Kogi?  Even that whole truck phenomenon.  I’d love to do a truck.  That would be so up our alley to do like corn dogs and sausages but no one is going to come.  I’d be out there with my corn dogs all by myself.

CGT: You’d have at least one customer.  I’d drive up for that!  I love Sonoma County.  I went to high school in Santa Rosa.  Back in those days — 1976 to ‘77 — my mother wouldn’t let us go out to Guerneville, or the Russian River because it was too dangerous.  It’s changed so much since then.

DS: We opened Bovolo 5 years ago and Zazu 8.5 years ago.  My mother moved to Healdsburg 15 years ago and tried to convince us to move there from Seattle and open a place.  We walked around the square, and I was like, are you crazy?

JS: It was before the hotel, there were only a few Mexican restaurants, real bikers not the middle-aged guys on Harleys but real bikers, and that was it.  It wasn’t like it is today.

CGT: Well, thank you for taking the time to talk to me.  You’re doing amazing things.  I’ll definitely be in again on my next visit north.

JS: Thank you.  We’re very proud of the progress we’ve made.  We get Italian winemakers who say our food is better than what they get in Italy.  They really know what they’re talking about.

CGT: Indeed they do.

Coming Up: International Food Bloggers Conference (IFBC), August 27 – 29, 2010, Seattle Washington.  So much fun last year that I’ll be attending again this year.  Are you?

Upcoming Posts: Cochon 555 Napa, a write up of the amazing pork festival that I attended this spring. Cookbook Reviews: Steak and Friends: At Home with Rick Tramonto by Rick Tramonto, Spice Dreams by Sara Engram and Katie Luber, Cider Beans, Wild Greens, and Dandelion Jelly by Joan E. Aller.

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